Italic textual Greek with Palatino (mathpazo)

[Jim Oldfield]

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to insert the text "ΨDO" into a LyX document (the first letter is
upper case Greek psi, the next two letters are Latin letters), which is the
standard abbreviation for "pseudo-differential operator". By the way, "PDO"
won't cut it since this is already an abbreviation for "partial differential
operator".

The problem is, I'm using Palatino i.e. \usepackage{mathpazo}, but the Greek
characters from Computer Modern are used. Much worse than this, for non-default

shapes (like italic or bold) the default-shaped Computer Modern characters are
used! So in a theorem environment my Psi is upright when all surrounding text
is italic.

Clearly the relevant characters exist in Palatino, since they are used for \Psi
and \varPsi in math. I'd rather not resort to using these for a textual
character, so is there someone to make LaTeX know about the relevant fonts? At

the very least is there a way to make LaTeX use italic Computer Modern
substitutions instead of roman ones for italic characters?

Here are the relevant LaTeX warnings:
LaTeX Font Warning: Font shape `LGR/ppl/m/n' undefined
(Font) using `LGR/cmr/m/n' instead on input line 181.
LaTeX Font Warning: Font shape `LGR/ppl/m/it' undefined

(Font) using `LGR/ppl/m/n' instead on input line 186.


Thanks in advance for any help,
Jim

[Liviu Andronic]

Post by Jim Oldfield
Hi everyone,
I'm trying to insert the text "ΨDO" into a LyX document (the first letter is
upper case Greek psi, the next two letters are Latin letters), which is the
standard abbreviation for "pseudo-differential operator".  By the way, "PDO"
won't cut it since this is already an abbreviation for "partial differential
operator".
The problem is, I'm using Palatino i.e. \usepackage{mathpazo}, but the Greek
characters from Computer Modern are used.  Much worse than this, for non-default
shapes (like italic or bold) the default-shaped Computer Modern characters are
used!  So in a theorem environment my Psi is upright when all surrounding text
is italic.

Perhaps
http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-***@lists.lyx.org/msg82341.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-***@lists.lyx.org/msg84133.html

Liviu

Post by Jim Oldfield
Clearly the relevant characters exist in Palatino, since they are used for \Psi
and \varPsi in math. I'd rather not resort to using these for a textual
character, so is there someone to make LaTeX know about the relevant fonts?  At
the very least is there a way to make LaTeX use italic Computer Modern
substitutions instead of roman ones for italic characters?
LaTeX Font Warning: Font shape `LGR/ppl/m/n' undefined
(Font)              using `LGR/cmr/m/n' instead on input line 181.
LaTeX Font Warning: Font shape `LGR/ppl/m/it' undefined
(Font)              using `LGR/ppl/m/n' instead on input line 186.
Thanks in advance for any help,
Jim

[Jim Oldfield]

Thanks for the suggestion. I tried it out - made a short document with
\usepackage{tgpagella} and some emphasised (and non-emphasised) Greek - but
again I just got upright computer modern substitutions for both. This is quite
surprising since Pagella claims to support Greek - in fact from what I can tell
it's practically its purpose. Perhaps my system is somehow not setup correctly.
Here's the warning I get


LaTeX Font Warning: Font shape `LGR/qpl/m/n' undefined
(Font) using `LGR/cmr/m/n' instead on input line 18.

Anyway, this is turning out to be a lot more effort than it's probably worth. I
will do my readers a favour and just spell out "pseudodifferential operator" in
full when I need it!

Thanks,
jim


----- Original Message ----

Sent: Thu, 13 January, 2011 14:08:47
Subject: Re: Italic textual Greek with Palatino (mathpazo)

Hi everyone,
I'm trying to insert the text "ΨDO" into a LyX document (the first letter

is

upper case Greek psi, the next two letters are Latin letters), which is the
standard abbreviation for "pseudo-differential operator". By the way,

"PDO"

won't cut it since this is already an abbreviation for "partial

differential

operator".
The problem is, I'm using Palatino i.e. \usepackage{mathpazo}, but the

Greek

characters from Computer Modern are used. Much worse than this, for

non-default

shapes (like italic or bold) the default-shaped Computer Modern characters

are

used! So in a theorem environment my Psi is upright when all surrounding

text

is italic.

Perhaps
Liviu

Clearly the relevant characters exist in Palatino, since they are used for

\Psi

and \varPsi in math. I'd rather not resort to using these for a textual
character, so is there someone to make LaTeX know about the relevant fonts?

At

the very least is there a way to make LaTeX use italic Computer Modern
substitutions instead of roman ones for italic characters?
LaTeX Font Warning: Font shape `LGR/ppl/m/n' undefined
(Font) using `LGR/cmr/m/n' instead on input line 181.
LaTeX Font Warning: Font shape `LGR/ppl/m/it' undefined
(Font) using `LGR/ppl/m/n' instead on input line 186.
Thanks in advance for any help,
Jim

--
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

[Jim Oldfield]

Post by Jim Oldfield
Thanks for the suggestion. I tried it out - made a short document with
\usepackage{tgpagella}

I was referring to
\usepackage{qpxmath,tgpagella}

That shouldn't have any effect since qpxmath only affects the math font, and
it's the text font that I had trouble with. (If tgpagella had worked I _would_
need something like that to make the math match, though.) Still, I tried it to
be safe and it didn't work either. Thanks again though!

[Liviu Andronic]

Thanks for the suggestion.  I tried it out - made a short document with
\usepackage{tgpagella}

I was referring to
\usepackage{qpxmath,tgpagella}

Have you tried this? Regards
Liviu

and some emphasised (and non-emphasised) Greek - but
again I just got upright computer modern substitutions for both.  This is quite
surprising since Pagella claims to support Greek - in fact from what I can tell
it's practically its purpose.  Perhaps my system is somehow not setup correctly.
 Here's the warning I get
LaTeX Font Warning: Font shape `LGR/qpl/m/n' undefined
(Font)              using `LGR/cmr/m/n' instead on input line 18.
Anyway, this is turning out to be a lot more effort than it's probably worth.  I
will do my readers a favour and just spell out "pseudodifferential operator" in
full when I need it!
Thanks,
jim
----- Original Message ----

Sent: Thu, 13 January, 2011 14:08:47
Subject: Re: Italic textual Greek with Palatino (mathpazo)

Hi  everyone,
I'm trying to insert the text "ΨDO" into a LyX  document (the first letter

is

upper case Greek psi, the next two letters  are Latin letters), which is the
standard abbreviation for  "pseudo-differential operator".  By the way,

"PDO"

won't cut it since  this is already an abbreviation for "partial

differential

 operator".
The problem is, I'm using Palatino i.e.  \usepackage{mathpazo}, but the

Greek

characters from Computer Modern are  used.  Much worse than this, for

non-default

shapes (like italic  or bold) the default-shaped Computer Modern characters

are

used!  So in  a theorem environment my Psi is upright when all surrounding

text

is  italic.

Perhaps
Liviu

 Clearly the relevant characters exist in Palatino, since they are used for

\Psi

and \varPsi in math. I'd rather not resort to using these for a  textual
character, so is there someone to make LaTeX know about the  relevant fonts?

At

the very least is there a way to make LaTeX  use italic Computer Modern
substitutions instead of roman ones for  italic characters?
 LaTeX Font Warning: Font shape `LGR/ppl/m/n' undefined
(Font)               using `LGR/cmr/m/n' instead on input line 181.
LaTeX Font Warning:  Font shape `LGR/ppl/m/it' undefined
(Font)              using  `LGR/ppl/m/n' instead on input line 186.
Thanks in  advance for any help,
 Jim

--
Do you know how to  read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do  you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

[Guenter Milde]

Post by Jim Oldfield
I'm trying to insert the text "ΨDO" into a LyX document (the first letter is
upper case Greek psi, the next two letters are Latin letters)
The problem is, I'm using Palatino i.e. \usepackage{mathpazo}, but the
Greek characters from Computer Modern are used. Much worse than this,
for non-default shapes (like italic or bold) the default-shaped
Computer Modern characters are used! So in a theorem environment my
Psi is upright when all surrounding text is italic.

This is because the Palatino family does not have a Greek text font.

Post by Jim Oldfield
Clearly the relevant characters exist in Palatino, since they are used
for \Psi and \varPsi in math.

But these symbols are taken from two math fonts.

Post by Jim Oldfield
I'd rather not resort to using these for a textual character, so is
there someone to make LaTeX know about the relevant fonts?

You could try TeX Gyre Pagella with XeTeX. Its an Palatino clone and
extension. The Unicode-encoded otf font has also some Greek.

Post by Jim Oldfield
At the very least is there a way to make LaTeX use italic Computer Modern
substitutions instead of roman ones for italic characters?

You could try the substitutefonts.sty package
http://milde.users.sourceforge.net/substitutefont/

Günter

[Liviu Andronic]

Post by Guenter Milde
You could try TeX Gyre Pagella with XeTeX. Its an Palatino clone and
extension. The Unicode-encoded otf font has also some Greek.

Interesting workaround, but I keep getting this error when trying TeX
Gyre Pagella with XeTeX in beta3:
! Package xkeyval Error: `TeX' undefined in families `Ligatures'.

\setmainfont[Ligatures=TeX]{TeXGyrePagella}

Try typing <return> to proceed.
If that doesn't work, type X <return> to quit.

LuaTeX fails too. Any ideas?
Liviu

[Guenter Milde]

Post by Liviu Andronic

Post by Guenter Milde
You could try TeX Gyre Pagella with XeTeX. Its an Palatino clone and
extension. The Unicode-encoded otf font has also some Greek.

Interesting workaround, but I keep getting this error when trying TeX
! Package xkeyval Error: `TeX' undefined in families `Ligatures'.
\setmainfont[Ligatures=TeX]{TeXGyrePagella}
Try typing <return> to proceed.
If that doesn't work, type X <return> to quit.
LuaTeX fails too. Any ideas?

This error is actually from the fontconfig package. The option for TeX
ligature changed recently, so maybe your fontconfig version is either
too old or too new.

Most probably, you don't need the TeX ligatures (at least, they should
not be needed with LyX), so leaving the offending option out is the
simples way.

Otherwise, check the fontconfig documentation for your version.

If LyX inserts the option, export to LaTeX, fix and compile "by hand".
If this helps, report back so that it could be fixed in LyX.

Günter

[Liviu Andronic]

Post by Guenter Milde
This error is actually from the fontconfig package. The option for TeX
ligature changed recently, so maybe your fontconfig version is either
too old or too new.

Too old I guess. I'm using Xubuntu 10.04, fontconfig 2.8.0.

Post by Guenter Milde
Most probably, you don't need the TeX ligatures (at least, they should
not be needed with LyX), so leaving the offending option out is the
simples way.

I haven't intentionally set any ligature option. How could I disable it?

Post by Guenter Milde
Otherwise, check the fontconfig documentation for your version.
If LyX inserts the option, export to LaTeX, fix and compile "by hand".
If this helps, report back so that it could be fixed in LyX.

I managed to export to LaTeX (xetex or luatex) and comment out the
ligature line, but then I'm not sure how to compile by hand. I tried
latex newfile3.tex
xetex newfile3.tex
luatex newfile3.tex

They all fail with multiple errors. Ideas?
Liviu

Post by Guenter Milde
Günter

[Guenter Milde]

...

Post by Liviu Andronic

Post by Guenter Milde
Most probably, you don't need the TeX ligatures (at least, they should
not be needed with LyX), so leaving the offending option out is the
simplest way.

...

Post by Liviu Andronic

Post by Guenter Milde
Otherwise, check the fontconfig documentation for your version.

I haven't intentionally set any ligature option. How could I disable it?

I don't know. Maybe they are hard-coded (which IMO would be a bug),
maybe there is an option in the non-TeX font settings dialogue.

Post by Liviu Andronic

Post by Guenter Milde
If LyX inserts the option, export to LaTeX, fix and compile "by hand".
If this helps, report back so that it could be fixed in LyX.

I managed to export to LaTeX (xetex or luatex) and comment out the
ligature line,

You need the line (which selects the font), but not the option.
Remove only the part in [] including the brackets themselves.

Post by Liviu Andronic
but then I'm not sure how to compile by hand. I tried
latex newfile3.tex
xetex newfile3.tex
luatex newfile3.tex
They all fail with multiple errors. Ideas?

`latex` and `pdflatex` will fail (if you exported as (Xe|Lua)tex) because
of Unicode characters and the fontconfig package.

`xetex` and `luatex` correspond to `tex` - the "plain" TeX macro set.

You need `xelatex` or `lualatex`. If there are still errors, report
them.

Günter

[Liviu Andronic]

Post by Guenter Milde
...

Post by Liviu Andronic

Post by Guenter Milde
Most probably, you don't need the TeX ligatures (at least, they should
not be needed with LyX), so leaving the offending option out is the
simplest way.

...

Post by Liviu Andronic

Post by Guenter Milde
Otherwise, check the fontconfig documentation for your version.

I haven't intentionally set any ligature option. How could I disable it?

I don't know. Maybe they are hard-coded (which IMO would be a bug),
maybe there is an option in the non-TeX font settings dialogue.

I couldn't find any.

Post by Guenter Milde

Post by Liviu Andronic

Post by Guenter Milde
If LyX inserts the option, export to LaTeX, fix and compile "by hand".
If this helps, report back so that it could be fixed in LyX.

I managed to export to LaTeX (xetex or luatex) and comment out the
ligature line,

You need the line (which selects the font), but not the option.
Remove only the part in [] including the brackets themselves.

OK, I see.

Post by Guenter Milde

Post by Liviu Andronic
but then I'm not sure how to compile by hand. I tried
latex newfile3.tex
xetex newfile3.tex
luatex newfile3.tex
They all fail with multiple errors.  Ideas?

`latex` and `pdflatex` will fail (if you exported as (Xe|Lua)tex) because
of Unicode characters and the fontconfig package.
`xetex` and `luatex` correspond to `tex` - the "plain" TeX macro set.
You need `xelatex` or `lualatex`. If there are still errors, report
them.

...the joy of TeX-ing. :) After removing the ligature option xelatex
compiled the document fine. But when I export to LaTeX luatex and then
lualatex the document I get a lot of errors. From the messages it is
as if the exported .tex file was prepared for XeTeX and not for
LuaTeX.

Regards
Liviu

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Post by Guenter Milde
This error is actually from the fontconfig package. The option for TeX
ligature changed recently, so maybe your fontconfig version is either
too old or too new.

could you point me to this "too new" version? I have the most recent release
of fontspec (v. 2.1e), and this one provides TeX ligatures.

Post by Guenter Milde
Most probably, you don't need the TeX ligatures (at least, they should
not be needed with LyX), so leaving the offending option out is the
simples way.

The ligatures are needed in order to resolve --, --- and friends. That's why
it is hardcoded.

Note that we changed from mapping=text-tex to Ligatures=TeX, as recommended by
the fontspec doc, since the two are equivalent, but only the latter is
supported by both XeTeX and LuaTeX.

Jürgen